Posted 16 June 2006 - 08:44 PM
Had a quick look at the site and it states that subscriptions to [it's] services are suspended for the time being. Not wishing to be sceptical here, but....
Suggest extreme caution if you do go further with this outfit, as a good service never usually suspends it's facilities unless of course a re-vamp is under way.
Curious to see that the original trial version had a low amount profit per race, lower than the BetFiar minimum stake. Any thoughts or have you given up looking at their site?
Posted 20 June 2006 - 11:23 PM
It is, as the name implies, an automatic betting system; it is a variation of the Martingale system which as you will know, can be a dangerous game. One receives the day's software each morning by email and enters it into the program which one already has running. You designate the profit per race (PPR) you want and the software calculates the stake required to achieve that and places the bet. If the bet is won, it proceeds to the next race and repeats the action. I should say here that all bets are place bets only.
However, if the bet loses, the software then calculates the stake necessary at the available odds on the next race to achieve your PPR for BOTH races plus the lost stake money - and places that bet. If this wins, you've recovered the previous loss and the PPR on both races, which is great. However, if it loses, it repeats the previous calculation, only this time there are the two lost stakes plus the PPR on three races to recover. The snag in this is that you are betting on places only and the odds are invariably odds-on, maybe even as little as 1.2, often around 1.5. If you think about this you'll realise that the stakes balloon up very quickly and since it's quite easy to run three or four losses on the run, you find large stakes being placed.
The originators of the software advise certain bank levels for your chosen PPR but, in my opinion, they are too low. For a PPR of £1 a bank of £200 is suggested. One pays £49.99 per fortnight for the service.
I happened to have about £220 in my account so I designated a PPR of £1 as advised and set it off. By the third day I was used to leaving it unattended and finding that I had made £6 or £7 each day. However, on checking how it was going on the third day, I was shocked to find it stopped because there weren't enough funds to place the necessary recovery bet! I had had four losers on the run and the program required to place £164 odd to try to recover. I either had to refund my Betfair account or say goodbye to the bank. I crossed my fingers and refunded £150 to make up the bet and this time it won. This meant that I now had a bank of £400 or so so I carried on. Later in my two weeks the same thing happened again, even with this bigger bank and I had to add another £180 to get out of jail. I didn't renew the sub.
I have to say that when I had any issues with the setup (Betfair making changes, etc) the support response was excellent and friendly. I made my concerns about the bank size clear to them and we discussed various aspects of the program in a friendly way. I feel that a bank of £1000 is the minimum for a PPR of £1 but the real snag is that the place betting is all odds-on which makes the stakes leap up so quickly with adverse results.
I'm sorry this is an awfully long post, terrible manners for a newbie but I couldn't do it justice in less space. I hope it is useful to you all.
Thanks Gavin for providing this soapbox for us and also, the free trading ebook you give - I think it covers the subject very well indeed.
Posted 21 June 2006 - 08:33 AM
Thanks for your post! I haven't used Auto-Betfair as yet so cant comment on the software.
Does the software choose the selections itself or do have to work out the selections from the Racing Post and then input them manually?
Thanks for your comments about the Free Betfair Trading Ebook, glad you liked it! If there is anything else you think I should add to it, please let me know.
I was trying to aim it at beginner to intermediate Betfair traders and bettors, to help people get a better understanding of trading, steamers and drifters, how to trade, systems, staking plans, and a couple of trading strategies thrown in!
Posted 21 June 2006 - 09:23 AM
My name is Reg and I work for Auto-Betfair, so thought I'd better clear up any issues with regards to subscription availability.
We took the decision to temporarily pause the registration of new subscriptions for two reasons. Firstly, we are a relatively small team, and we have been incredibly busy working on a version of our software for Betdaq, so time spent processing subscriptions and responding to questions is fairly limited at the moment.
Secondly, we are introducing a list of new features to Auto-Betfair this week, the first of which was introduced today. Auto-Betfair can now trade bets based on a live results feed directly into the software. Before this, Auto-Betfair would need to wait for Betfair to settle any bets before it could continue with it's strategy. This could often take 10-15 minutes, resulting in races being skipped.
We now have a live results feed into the software, so that Auto-Betfair knows within 10-20 seconds after the horse passes the post (unless the decision goes to the judges of course!) so it can make it's calculations quicker. The 'Triggers' page also gives details of the horse selection which Auto-Betfair chose, the number of places the horse can finish in, and as soon as the result comes in, the placing of the horse itself.
We are also adding an option to specify the maximum number of consecutive losses the user wishes to absorb, before cutting his/her losses. This was one of Terry's suggestions!
We do agree that our initial recommendation of 0.5% 'could' be seen as being risky, which is why we introduced a variable PPR value, so that customers could specify the PPR for themselves.
We are also preparing another variation of our daily zip files to spice things up, which will be available completely free of charge to our existing subscribers, but I won't give too much away on this yet, as it's not even been announced to subscribers yet!
Subscriptions should become available again by the end of the week, and I'd like to remind anyone that you are welcome to try our software completely free of charge for 3-days, so you can decide for yourself if this is the right Exchange trading solution for you. Auto-Betfair is the ONLY fully-automated exchange betting solution on the market (unless another one has come along that we don't know about! ) and is perfect for those who want to take advantage of the superior odds an exchange offers, but don't want to be stuck in front of their computer all day. You can set it up in the morning before you head of to work and that's it!
I'm sure Terry would be happy to verify this.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to email us.
Posted 21 June 2006 - 07:52 PM
I really can't imagine anything you left out of the free trading ebook; I would have to be very seriously persuaded before I would spend money buying any other ebook after reading this. People are selling less informative stuff than this for £30 or £40 on the 'net. When you get right down to it, you have to trade yourself, for real money, to get a real grip of trading and your stuff puts you in possession of the necessary information to do this. Sure, you'll make a few mistakes but if you trade for minimum stakes you can hardly lose serious money while you are learning.
It's great to see a post from Reg about Auto-Betfair. This is entirely typical of my experience with them, immediate friendly discussion, no 'we know better than you' attitude, Reg & Mark are on a par with the blokes from Bet-IE when it comes to feedback and support - and you don't get better than that.
I'll be very interested to see what the latest program offers; provided one has a sufficiently large bank, I have no quarrel with Auto-Betfair, it definitely does make money. I wonder if I could suggest them trading on win bets as an alternative to place betting? I realise that one would suffer a lower strike rate but the benefits of the better odds and above all, the lesser multiplication of the stakes after losses would compensate for that, I am sure. Perhaps Reg, you could offer two platforms for subscriber's choice? Realistically, I accept that running even one platform needs all available resources, I am asking too much here. Still.......
Regards to all.
Posted 21 June 2006 - 08:09 PM
Forgot to answer your question: you don't have to specify any bets, the software does it all, the daily feed provides up to 25 races to consider and the software automatically chooses the appropriate strategy and places the bets. Up to now, races have been skipped because Betfair doesn't react quickly enough and the software won't bet until it knows the result of the previous wager. As Reg has advised, this is no longer a problem. so one could hope to make a better return on the day than I did. I should mention that the last seven or eight races are left as a safety buffer in case there is a need to recover losses and no new bets are initiated using them. I should also say that I have no connection, other than as a previous customer of Auto-Betfair and I am not an affiliate, so I am not selling anything.
May I ask what the warn (0%) and the five coloured blocks mean? I hope not to have infringed Forum etiquette, if so, I apologise!
Posted 22 June 2006 - 01:42 PM
Im not sure what the 0% warn thing means, dont worry about it, I think it has to do with spam and foul language. It will let me know when someone has published something that is not in line with forum rules.
Thanks for your response re Auto Betfair!
Posted 22 June 2006 - 07:27 PM
I've got four warning squares next to me and dont know what on earth they mean!
Your posts over Auto-Betfair were very interesting and thanks for sharing this. I was very impressed that Reg from the software company made a response, what did you think about this?
Couple of points for Reg from Auto-Betfair:-
1. What will a three day test run of AB actually prove to someone? Wouldn't it be better if you allow a lomger paid for period (like two weeks as Bet Angel or others) to show what the software can do?
2. What affiliation does AB have with Market Feeder Pro? Is there a tie in> Do you use their engine?
Posted 26 June 2006 - 04:25 PM
Re the answer from Reg, of AB, I was interested to see that they are continuing to make changes as experience is built up. I have had a mail from Reg since, in which he outlines some very nice new facilities aimed at giving the client more say in what the 'bot does.
One niggle I have, though not against AB, is that to lodge a lump with Betfair costs so much. With the credit card 2% (shortly to rise to 2.5%!) plus the Betfair account fee of 1.5%, one is blueing £35 per £1000 before you start on the £25 per week for the use of the program. Ever get the feeling of big birds with sharp beaks circling overhead?
AB does run on the back of MFPro. The three-day trial is quite good in that it does show you what the program does - I think it will be even more effective now that the Betfair delay has been eliminated, as Reg told us.
It's a fascinating subject, this 'bot business; when fully refined, one of them might just bring that happy day of always winning a bit closer.........maybe.
Meanwhile, I'm dipping my toe in the trading waters; keeping to minimum stakes to see what happens; You can trade away all day, pretty well for nothing if you keep to minimum stakes and don't lose track. What's your experience with it?
Don't mention the war.
Posted 28 June 2006 - 08:18 PM
Power to Reg from AB if they are refining their bot, certainly looking at his post he seems to be putting you (the punter) further up the proverbial pecking order!
Personally I don's go much for bots especially ones where you don't know how they are making selections. To me this is a "black box" system where control is taken away from you and when it goes wrong you have no idea why...
Betfair costs can be managed if you use your debit card, their costs of commission on the other hand cannot... It's taken me nearly two years to get my commission costs under 3.5% Thanks for letting me know about AB using the MarketFeederPro (MFP) platform, it starts to make a bit more sense now in what AB does and how it works.
Did you know that you can buy MFP outright for £200? They will give you lifetime support and upgrades for this, plus also initially allow you a two week trial for £20. Now, if only you could get to learn how AB makes it's selections....!
A three day trial would not convince me of anything; it's a far too shorter period to reach any conclusion, but if I was using AB I would be paying particular attention to the length of losing streaks between each winner occurrence - ie after a winner, count both the maximum and average number of losing races it encounters. Also I'd look at the maximum adverse (ie lowest) price it attempted to back at during a losing sequence, then using these two important stats work out what value of intra day bank (cash flow) would be required to support this. Gathering info of this nature would give you a fairly comprehensive idea of what to expect and how to fund those dreadful drawdown days we all (without exception) experience.
Compounding losses until a winner is obtained is a recipe for disaster without knowing the above para's stats - at least with these you would be partially armed with some idea of an exposure or potential wipe out. Have you ever tried selecting place backs on your own to see what sort of strike rate and profit can be achieved in real time? Surprise yourself, have a go then pay yourself £25 at the end of the month!
Keep us informed on AB's progress especially the impending new release.
Posted 07 July 2006 - 01:02 PM
First of all, Auto-Betfair now receives "LIVE RACE RESULTS" directly into the software. This results in far fewer races being skipped because of Betfair delays in settling bets. The results are processed around 30 seconds after the official result is announced. The 'Triggers' worksheet offers the user the name of the horse which the software selected, the number of places in order to secure a winning bet, and the result of the race as soon as the result comes in. This is often 5 minutes before Betfair updates the account summary.
We have also introduced three new options into the software.
"CLB" or "consecutive losing bets" allows the user to specify the maximum run of consecutive losing bets you are prepared to let the software go to.
It is a form of 'damage limitation' and can make a huge difference to your out lay. For example, setting the "CLB" to 4, means that if Auto-Betfair encounters a run of 4 consecutive losing bets, it will cease trading.
"PPR" or "Profit Per race" allows you to now set your own profit level, rather than requesting this from us. You can change the value from any figure between 1p and £5. You can also change this value during race hours.
For example, you set the "PPR" to £2 per race, but see that you're doing quite well, so at 4:00pm, you adjust your "PPR" to £2.40. This maximises the profit return during racing hours.
"MO" or "Minimum Odds" allows you to specify the minimum odds you wish Auto-Betfair to trade at. For example, setting the "MO" to 1.75 means that Auto-Betfair will skip the race if the odds aren't matched above 1.75. The higher the specified "MO" the less money is placed on the bet, and subsequent bets in a losing run. This can make a huge difference over the course of 4 or 5 consecutive losing bets.
We have also introduced an EXTRA daily settings zip file (additional fee) throughout the summer months which covers weekday evening races, and offers an average of 12 extra race bet opportunities per day.
Posted 10 July 2006 - 10:35 AM
I was interested in the run-on type of betting system referred to above. I use a similar system which works on the winning horse only www.cash-master.com which has proved very successful, and quite inexpensive to purchase. The only problem is of course a long run of loser which means the stakes run high, especially if the next odds are close to evens. For those like my wife, who hit the chandelier after a run of 9 losers (and who has never put more than £2 on the Grand National), there is also provided by the author two separate "loser buster" programs in his very detailed destructions as to finding which horses to back. Great chap to email with excellent support if required.
Unfortunately I have had to put the system on the back burner for now, in fear of having to have my wife sectioned - although she quite enjoyed the £300 she made in one week with 1 in 3 winners.
I am now concentrating on arbitrage software between OddsChecker listed bookies and Betfair, also looking at the possibilities of using Bet-IE for trading.
I must admit to having difficulty with the concept of trading on Betfair, but no doubt it will all fall into place eventually, by continually go over it.
Regards to all,
Jugador - in Andalucia.
Posted 10 July 2006 - 10:53 AM
Yes this type of system can offer a nice return most days, but a long run of losses can wipe out your bank entirely! You mentioned a run of 9 losses (I'm assuming focussing on one of the favourites?)
Take for example, what happened last year...
March 8th 2005. A favourite did not win a race at a UK meeting for 2 and a half days, which equated to 47 consecutive RACES!
Posted 11 July 2006 - 12:01 PM
Does anyone know since when Auto Betfair established? Is it a few months ago? There is nothing much on the website about the company itself.
I am very interested in this software. I was reading about sport arbitrage for the past few months and I have set up a new account and about to subscribe to Zero Risk Arbitrage. Then a few days ago I received an email about betting robot, Auto Betfair.
But my question is, does it really work? I have £6k in my bank, and looking to earn £100 or more per week (if possible). Is this realistic? I noticed that you need a big bankroll for auto-betfair to work but all I have is £6k.
Is my money safe with auto betfair or ArbAlarm?
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